Mycroft Mark II missing files

A post was split to a new topic: Mark II stopped booting - fans at max

I got to agree with LiberalArtist here; I’ve spent quite a few hours hacking and tinkering, writing a couple of skills for Mycroft, getting the setup just so; now all that work is, without communication from core-devs, deprecated or required to be ported to a new platform. I was working on:

  • features for the spotify skill
  • a new skill that integrates purpleair
  • a new skill that allows you to change mycroft’s voice (in runtime, via voice commands).

I appreciate the difficulty of what you’re trying to do, but working behind closed doors and then sort of “hard forking” your own project – without warning anyone who might be messing with your code – is an unpleasant thing to do to your community. Like, will the dinkum repo be able to run outside the mark 2 hardware? If I develop a skill, am I forced to choose developing for an unsupported platform that works on a pi or working on a mark 2?

I placed on order for the mark 2 based on the promise of a really hackable, open and integrity-focused piece of software. I’m paying a premium over what Amazon/Google/Apple provide, and happy to do so, but when I pay that premium I’m not simply hoping Mycroft succeeds or that I get a good device (indeed, I expect Mycroft won’t compete in UX for some years), but that Mycroft can be a platform that I can be part of. For this to work, you all have to merge PRs, and be really transparent about what’s up inside your org.

Again, I appreciate that you all seem to be in serious production hell, and underwater, but you’ve set a really high bar for yourselves when you advertise a different kind of product and different kind of company, and making trade-offs that favor “consumer experience” over community-engagement are the kind that make me think about cancelling my order and just going back to alexa.

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Hi @osheroff,

For those that want the extensibility and access to the existing ecosystem - we have released a Classic Core image that includes all the tooling you’d be used to and is completely compatible with all the Skills you’ve been working on.

We built Dinkum because we wanted to show what was possible with heavily refactored code, and provide the best possible direct user experience when people plug their Mark II in for the first time. We did this “behind closed doors” because we were trying lots of different things and every time we did this publicly there was an outcry that it wasn’t backwards compatible. We tried to explain our intentions the first few times, but honestly, our dev team was able to move far more quickly by hunkering down and just trying things out in private.

Dinkum was made as a fork, precisely because we didn’t want to force this on everyone and it is only written to work on the Mark II. For those like yourself that have written Skills we didn’t want to suddenly force you to port this to a new framework, particularly before we’d really tested it out in the field.

Maybe we should have released Classic Core as the default and provided Dinkum as an optional image? However Dinkum is simply far more stable. So for consumers that aren’t comfortable on the command line it provides the best experience as a voice assistant performing the core functions that we’ve seen people use most.

For yourself, if Classic Core is working well, then I wouldn’t bother porting your Skills to Dinkum. Just grab the Classic Core Sandbox image and away you go.

It’s an interesting point about making trade-off’s between “consumer experience” and “community engagement”. I think I need to sit with that for a bit, but I do hope that we can find a place where as a community we are working toward a better consumer experience together.

The Mark II production model I received is a total disappointment. It took 3 days until I finally stumbled on the documentation that explained that the Mark II OS didn’t have the capabilities I thought I’d been sold when I decided to order it. As a retired software engineer I understand how the pressure to deliver promises can lead to bad decisions. All the justifications offered above don’t justify the fact that this appliance is effectively not what was promised. Furthermore the fact that the documentation did not make this failure blatently clear is even more disappointing.

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My Mark II thinks its paired, but it doesn’t respond to any commands or show up in my account.

Attempts to get help via forum, email and MM chat haven’t been successful yet. My GF wants me to just box it up and get a refund.

Linux HAL: “The purpose of the hardware abstraction layer (HAL) was to allow desktop applications to discover and use the hardware of the host system through a simple, portable and abstract API, regardless of the type of the underlying hardware”

Can Mycroft strive for a HAL? Just a thought …

-Mike Mac
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OVOS and Neon does that.

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our PHAL service can also be used together with vanilla mycroft, just run it on same machine, all it needs is to connect to the bus. but our plugins may not make sense in vanilla mycroft

docs here

https://openvoiceos.github.io/community-docs/PHAL

We did this “behind closed doors” because we were trying lots of different things and every time we did this publicly there was an outcry that it wasn’t backwards compatible.

Definitely sounds painful. That said, you did sign up to run an open-source based company…

Maybe we should have released Classic Core as the default and provided Dinkum as an optional image?

No, I don’t want to stay on classic. If you all have a better framework in dinkum I’m happy to port skills there – I want to be swimming as close to HEAD as possible; I know that even in open source projects it’s usually one person or one company that does the bulk of the heavy lifting. But:

  • Giving your devs more of a heads up of where you’re going (even if only to say “hey guys, this it the new stuff, like it or not”) so that your community doesn’t feel totally surprised / left in the dark is going to engender goodwill down the line, and the inverse is just going to make your community feel left out / devalued.

  • Dinkum has a lot of odd systemd stuffs that seem to be aimed at just the mark 2; I’m happy to have ordered a mark 2 personally, but I’d like to know that if I contribute skills for mycroft I’m not going to either have to (a) contribute to a deprecated, unmaintained codebase or (b) only have skills be available to people who pay for premium hardware.

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Can you elaborate on “no automatic updates” ?

I received my unit yesterday and already had to flash an image…

Also, to anyone who flashes… Make sure you go into the Advanced Settings on the Raspberry Imager and set your SSID credentials… Wasted 20-30 minutes before realizing the Mycroft temporary SSID will not broadcast.